Digital Cowboy

8 Responses to “Tell me…”

1. Thus saith Res Ipsa on February 21st, 2006 at about 4:00 pm:

   Matt 11:12

   And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

   [The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence] The tax-gatherers and pagans, whom the scribes and Pharisees think have no right to the kingdom of the Messiah, filled with holy zeal and earnestness, seize at once on the proffered mercy of the Gospel, and so take the kingdom as by force from those learned doctors who claimed for themselves the chiefest places in that kingdom. Christ himself said, The tax-gatherers and harlots go before you into the kingdom of God. See the parallel place, Luke 7:28-30. He that will take, get possession of the kingdom of righteousness, peace, and spiritual joy, must be in earnest: all hell will oppose him in every step he takes; and if a man be not absolutely determined in give up his sins and evil companions, and have his soul saved at all hazards, and at every expense, he will surely perish everlastingly. This requires a violent earnestness.
   (from Adam Clarke’s Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1996 by Biblesoft)

   Sounds reasonable it just depends on how you want to translate:

   biazo (bee-ad’-zo); to force, i.e. (reflexively) to crowd oneself (into), or (passively) to be seized:

2. Thus saith digitalcowboy on February 21st, 2006 at about 5:24 pm:

   Wow. Adam Clarke must have a degree in “divinity.”

   “It takes a theologian to misunderstand the Bible.”

3. Thus saith Res Ipsa on February 21st, 2006 at about 6:17 pm:

   Matt 11:11-15

   11 “I assure you, of all who have ever lived, none is greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the most insignificant person in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he is! 12 And from the time John the Baptist began preaching and baptizing until now, the Kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people attack it. 13 For before John came, all the teachings of the Scriptures looked forward to this present time. 14 And if you are willing to accept what I say, he is Elijah, the one the prophets said would come. 15 Anyone who is willing to hear should listen and understand!
   NLT

   You’re translation?

   11 Ameén légoo humín ouk egeégertai en genneetoís gunaikoón meízoon Iooánnou toú Baptistoú Ho dé mikróteros en teé basileía toón ouranoón meízoon autoú estin

   12 Apó dé toón heemeroón Iooánnou toú Baptistoú héoos árti hee basileía toón ouranoón biázetai kaí biastaí harpázousin auteén

   13 Pántes gár hoi profeétai kaí ho nómos héoos Iooánnou eprofeéteusan

   14 Kaí ei thélete déxasthai autós estin Eelías ho mélloon érchesthai

   15 Ho échoon oóta akouétoo

4. Thus saith digitalcowboy on February 21st, 2006 at about 7:27 pm:

   I’m not giving up “my translation” yet and not everyone who understands Greek is a theologian. Many who do, still aren’t qualified to speak on the subject.

   I’m neither a Greek scholar or a theologian. I would consider it slander if someone called me a theologian and I know little Greek. I’m just a learner.

5. Thus saith digitalcowboy on February 21st, 2006 at about 7:34 pm:

   And, by the way, I didn’t ask for Adam Clarke’s opinions. I asked for yours.

6. Thus saith Res Ipsa on February 21st, 2006 at about 11:53 pm:

   Fair enough. I hadn’t thought about that verse in awhile and I had to look up some background on it. Rather than just blatantly steal the guys work, I thought I’d give him credit.

   Reading it contextually the secondary usage in the Greek is a more reasonable explanation and the NLT folks did a better job on the translation than some of the more traditional versions. I don’t normally say that but in this case it appears true.

   I wasn’t trying to get too Greeky on you. This verse isn’t a run of the mill “thus saith the Lord” that translates easily. So the meaning you get out of reading it depends on which understanding you decide to use for the actual greek words.

   I wait for your detailed explanation.

7. Thus saith Ihatedashrub on February 25th, 2006 at about 5:45 pm:

   What does Matthew mean? He needs to get a new watch.

8. Thus saith ethical objectivism on March 14th, 2006 at about 10:08 pm:

   Man this sort of stuff is too interesting to miss.

   __ Thanks