Elena, dear, I love you and I’m not picking on you. I’m really not. As I said in this post, I’m not attacking people, I’m attacking the things that deceive them.
Being compelled in worship to bend the knee or to bow down is scriptural (see Psalm 95:6 and Jesus’ “confrontation” with the guards in the garden of Gethsemane in John 18:3-6). Being “slain” is likely not.
I can show it to you biblically but I’m not inclined to do the research at 3 in the morning. I’ll do a post on it soon. In the meantime, let me give you anecdotal, personal testimony. I’ve experienced it more than once. You can read “it” there to mean the anointing so strong I was knocked down and could not stand. I can assure you that when a well-trained alpha male is laying on the floor quite unexpectedly and feels physical pressure on his chest keeping him there while he worships God, it’s neither emotionalism or satanic. It sure isn’t fake. I’ve never had an anointed man of God “push me down.” I have been literally knocked down by the power of Holy Spirit more than once. ( I should note that Holy Spirit is a gentleman; in each case I had the power to override Him and stand but not the desire. That’s the definition of submission.)
I have read other comments from Christians who have done biblical research and “field” research (observing in churches) that much of the behavior attributed to the Holy Spirit is actually learned behavior—the babbling speech, the raising of hands, the falling onto the floor. One such commenter said that he didn’t think everything in the Pentecostal or Charismatic churches is bad. Some of what is going on may truly be of the Holy Spirit. I’d say that if a person’s life shows growing development of fruit, particular the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit, then likely the filling of the indwelling Holy Spirit is taking place—but it’s not just a one-time deal.
The infilling of the Holy Spirit is most definitely scriptural and a “one-time deal” (in the sense that it’s an eternally life changing event, in the same way as being born again) and I have nothing but contempt for the spirit that motivates religious people doing “field research” into how the Spirit of God chooses to operate. I would strongly suggest that you quickly begin to ignore everything they say. They may be “Christians” but they are deceived and on an ill-conceived and dangerous mission that will only yield truth if Holy Spirit intervenes with them personally. (Possible, but not likely; they’re most likely not really seeking Him and He’s a gentleman.) You just described everything I despise about religion. The Bible says “seek and you shall find.” It doesn’t say anything about “field research” or “observation.” Those people are “observing” something about which they have no understanding, when they should be seeking Him for the answers to their questions. I suspect they didn’t start with questions and went out seeking confirmation of their answers. They’re wrong. And I speak in tongues, too. Boo! It certainly is learned behavior and I learned it from the Holy Spirit.
From my understanding, the Holy Spirit fills and works through us when we submit, feed on the Word (read it and think about it), pray (listen to God and talk to Him), and do good works (leading, teaching, serving, praying for intercession, giving, taking care of folks, etc.). The gifts of the Spirit are not for our own puffing up but are for the discipling of Christ-followers, so that the body of Christ is indeed unified and that in Christ we grow up from baby Christians feeding on the basic truths of Scripture to be mature Christians who submit daily to God and who feed on the deep things of God.
That’s what religion teaches and why I hate it so. With the exception of the first line, everything you said in that paragraph is true and being distorted and misapplied by the misunderstanding you started with. (I’m also a bit concerned about the mention of “good works,” but I’ll let that slide and assume the best with you because you’ve demonstrated to me that your heart for God is sincere.)
Too many instances of Scripture describe the difficulties that Christians will face, for us to believe that God wants us to be totally without pain, disease, heartache, or poverty in this world. Peter, John, and Paul advise and encourage Christians for the times WHEN (which means, “they’re gonna come, dearhearts!”) the natural course of life will assail us and persecution will afflict us. Christians today sit in jails, struggle through illnesses of all sorts, face family situations they promised themselves they would do everything to prevent. I don’t think it is a lack of prayer or a lack of faith that causes those things. And anyone who attributes the situation to one of those lacks is bound to offend/hurt the person going through that situation.
Prediction is not endorsement. If you do not believe that “God wants us to be totally without pain, disease, heartache, or poverty in this world,” you’re not reading the same book I am. Throughout the Bible, God makes that truth clear. He said, I’m He “that gives you power to get wealth.” (Deut. 8:18) He said that he wished us to be in health and prosper even as our soul prospers in III John 1:2. He said He was the LORD that heals us (both physically and emotionally) in at least 5 places I can think of off the top of my head. (Ex. 15:26, (I am the Lord that heals you), Psalms 103:3 (heals ALL my diseases), Psalms 147:3 (heals my broken heart), Isaiah 53 through the end of the book of Isaiah is almost entirely about the subject and is quoted by Peter in I Peter 2:24. (Isaiah said we are, Peter said by His stripes we were healed.
But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
He also said, “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.” – Hosea 4:6
You can’t believe in salvation by faith without believing in healing by faith (both emotional and spiritual), or prosperity by faith. He paid the price for us all and purchased the whole package. Hardship will come, but He doesn’t change and He’s made His position very clear. He went out of His way to do it and still does. Do you believe that only some people that pray the “prayer of salvation” get saved? Then you cannot believe that only some people who pray for healing will get it. The same sacrificial Lamb provided both at the same time during the same process.
Larry’s reply, number 47, and Arielle’s reply, number 50, are the keys to the problem in “mainline” churches today. Makes me think of Casting Crowns’s song “If We Are the Body.” I think the problem is our disobedience, which may point to a lack of faith or just to spiritual laziness and continued rebellion. We sometimes are the younger brother and sometimes the older (see Jesus’ parable about the forgiving father). We need to be demonstrating the love of the forgiving father…rather, Father.
Religion is a satanic tool that has been used successfully for over 2000 years to keep people ignorant. For a long time, he managed to keep the Bible out of people’s hands entirely. Ever since God raised up Gutenberg and Luther to solve that problem, he’s been distorting it. You’re absolutely right that we’re the problem. When reality and scripture don’t line up, religion makes up stuff to explain it away. I want to know why it’s not lining up. The purpose of prayer is not to ask for stuff or beg for stuff or hope real hard that your wishes come true. The purpose of prayer is to get yourself lined up with the living Word.
Don’t trust any man, including me or your pastor, to interpret the Word for you. It’s a Living Book and He most definitely wants to be known. That’s why He sent the Book in the first place. Don’t listen to men and the books they write. Just seek Him. He’ll let you know where, when and to whom you need to submit and then work around them if He has to. He probably will have to but He’s good at at it because He’s been doing it ever since the original sin in the garden.
You and I may be saying tangential things, DC, just from different angles. We’re two different parts of Christ’s body. Both of us…and all the others who participate in or read these threads…are needed. Thanks for helping me remember that.
Oh, and congrats on 50+ comments!
We most definitely are members of the same body. Since I can’t have ya for my own, I’m glad you’re my sister, Elena. If I’m ever too harsh about this stuff, don’t take it personal. I love you and hate religion. Sometimes I don’t make that line too clear when I try to express myself. As for the number of comments, Thanks, I guess. I wouldn’t have even noticed the comment count if you and cZja hadn’t mentioned it. I couldn’t care less. That’s not why I do this.